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Am I the only one who doesn’t really like text like “kneel, bitch” on the photosets? I certainly don’t have a problem with the word per se, but one of the things I really like about this site is that it avoids the misogynistic tone that seems to pervade so many other bondage sites.
After all, the word “bitch” just doesn’t seem very, well… elegant.
No, you’re not the only one.
Something I’ve noticed in a number of sites: There seems to be a long-term tendency for a bondage site to drift in the direction of being more explicit, grungier, and more about D/s and SM rather than “just” bondage.
I consider this a form of decay, but then I’m someone who strongly prefers bondage that’s elegant or even cuddly (while still being inescapable). I want any D/s to be applied with a light touch, and the SM to be left off (except maybe for tickling). Hold the pain and humiliation, please.
But since this drift happens, someone must consider it an improvement. Maybe it’s just a natural drift toward what a majority prefers. Or maybe its the natural preference of the sort of people willing to actually produce a site: They start out offering “lighter” bondage fare than they prefer themselves, and gradually move toward their own preferences. Which may be darker than that of the audience they originally attracted.
I don’t recognise any specific sets from this description, but I am a few days behind again. I know I have mixed feelings on some of Ariel’s sets, but at the same time seeing Ariel so clearly loving this, and wanting more of it, does wonders to help settle my mind *shrug* 🙂
Personally I have already seen some sets here where I was not that keen on the text, but I did enjoy the pictures.
My tastes seem to be similar to lurker’s.
lurker’s point about how “extreme” everything is, if you simply look for “normal” sexual content on line it seems hard to find simple softcore content. Everything seems to be extreme hardcore, and the more extreme the better. I wonder if people simply become used to the more gentle content, and want more, but I am not convinced that this is the driving force. One reason I say this is the serious lack (based on my searching) of more softcore sites. There just does not seem to be much of a market for this.
In terms of bondage and BDSM, I am active at another forum, where my tastes are definitely at the very gentle, soft and romantic end of the scale.
Just look at some of the other bondage sites out there, there is clearly a market for more extreme content, but it is not what I personally want. I *love* the gentle and romantic look of so many of the pictures here.
This is not the only thing that draws me to RE, but it is a big part of it.
Perhaps a lot of this hinges of things like imagination and suggestion. Dress a woman in a sexy evening gown, show a hint of cleavage, a bit of leg, and people are fascinated by what she looks like underneath.
Strip her naked, oh look, its a naked woman, now what? Do you now need to add something to get people interested, since there are no longer any mysteries to uncover?
Ooh, interesting discussion…
I really don’t like sites that constantly talk about ‘bitches’, ‘sluts’ etc. It just seems rude to the models. And I’m really happy that the RE community doesn’t seem to run to that kind of sexism. I like bondage to go with a chivalrous, old-fashioned kind of attitude to women, rather than a woman-hating, ‘fetch me my beer then suck my c**k’ kind of view-point :shocking :shocking
I don’t think that people who think like that probably make very good bondage-players; I certainly don’t want to be tied up by anyone who doesn’t respect me, or women in general…
That said, I’m afraid that on a personal level, I rather like verbal abuse. :blush :blush as long as it’s only used in the context of bondage play, not in ‘real life’.
I don’t really know how to make sense of having both those viewpoints at once – but when I saw the ‘Kneel, Bitch’ photo-set with Sophia and Chanta, I felt a little envious! Hywel’s still away, so we won’t get his viewpoint for a couple more days, but I’m wondering if maybe he gave the set that name because Chanta uses the word ‘bitch’ such a lot! Mmmmmmmmm….
Anyway, for my part, I am sorry that some of the pain/humiliation stuff isn’t to everyone’s taste. When I get to have some creative input into shoots they do tend to go that way, cos I love it so much – but I think RE will always be a woman-friendly kind of site because Hywel is so very, very nice.
hmmmmm.
:faceheart
I can see what you mean about the language, and especially the term ‘bitch’. If it was used in every single set then I could see how it would get real offensive REAL quick.
I think in this particular set, Chanta is blatantly making Sophia her ‘bitch’. When you imagine what Chanta might be saying to Sophia, the word ‘bitch’ may have been used several times! Chanta has a site called Chanta’s Bitches… it would seem silly NOT to use the word in this context!
Just doing a quick search on all of the sets currently on Restrained Elegance, there are 15 which contain ‘bitch’ (incidentally, there are 44 which contain ‘damsel’). Out of the 15, 10 physically show a D/s scenario and the term ‘bitch’ is used as a ‘roleplay’ element. In 2, the word bitch is highly appropriate as it is used in terms of a ‘business bitch’ and a female dog! If I had seen 1 single set in which Hywel had said *anything* like “I saw this bitch walking down the street and just had to drag her into my studio and tie her up tight like she deserves” then I would stop working for the site. Simple as that!
I do understand that, for a large proportion of members, the entire style of language like this may not be desirable but that probably explains why the majority of sets do NOT contain this kind of language. But even nice girls like to be thought of as a bitch sometimes…. in fantasy land!
Kate x
Ooh sorry Ariel, I hadn’t read your post when I posted mine! I kind of echoed you a bit… Anyway, welcome back and happy new year to you, Ladycakes – I shall look forward to working with you again in 08!!!
Kate x
Ooh, hi lady! Lovely to hear from you, hope to see you soon.
I liked your post, and I like to think of you counting how many times Hywel is using different words… Please can we have more statistics about which words he likes??
:twirl :twirl
I prefer a polite and loving use of the language – of cause while the beauty is tied/chained/strapped in a a challenging and demanding way – politely asked to accept this large gag – nicely asked if it is too tight and told it only is for a few houers – and informed of the rules of the spanking comming up – or whatever is to happen.
HaslerJust remember that I love all of my bitches! There’s no misogyny behind it…although, when I work with some of the well spoken English girls like Ariel it is fun to use bad language with them and then order them to use it themselves (like when Ariel had to call herself a “Fuck-Slut”) as it is very degrading and humiliating in an entertaining way…but never a hateful way.
Take care,
Chanta@Guest wrote:
I like bondage to go with a chivalrous, old-fashioned kind of attitude to women, rather than a woman-hating, ‘fetch me my beer then suck my c**k’ kind of view-point :shocking :shocking
That is, truly scandalous behaviour.
The beer always comes afterwards. :cheers
I’m in the same sort of dilemma here as Ariel.
A big part of the ethos of Restrained Elegance has always been respect and appreciation of the models.
On the other hand, I do like roleplay, acting and verbal humiliation. It is pretty hot to “make someone your bitch” for a while, in play. That was the way in which this particular use of the word “Bitch” was definitely meant. As Kate said, the set is clearly all about Chanta making Sophia her bitch in a relatively playful bondage scene which I think was actually Sophia’s suggestion.
Both ladies were, of course, performing. Acting to the camera as professionals. I think very highly of Sophia and would not speak of her in this way out of character.
To me, it is pretty clear when I am speaking with “Hywel’s voice” rather than writing a story from a character’s point of view. I’d never write something like Kate’s example “I saw this bitch walking down the street and just had to drag her into my studio and tie her up tight like she deserves” AND MEAN IT IN REAL LIFE, AS HYWEL. I can see that in this specific example I came dangerously close to that, for which I apologise.
I might write something like it if writing with the voice of a character in a storyline to accompany the set. I’d like to think that the difference in authorial voices would be reasonably clear.
It is actually fair enough to say that the only difference between RE’s way of presenting the fantasy and D/s site where all the models are presented as “slavegirl bitches” from the moment you arrive at the site is where the fantasy starts. There’s nothing inherently wrong with saying that the fantasy starts at the front page of the site, I guess. For the more intense sites that might be preferable to sustaining the fantasy.
The danger with that of course is that it might lead people to believe that’s what you actually think or that we condone such a disrespectful, misogynistic or abusive attitude in real life… or that the site might ACTUALLY be run with someone with such a bad attitude to women, which is a very bad thing.
Therefore, I’ve always tried to talk as myself on RE, and have the fantasies presented in the photosets framed by “real life” with things like the site forum and the behind the scenes footage to show how we go about creating those fantasies. I’m sorry if that isn’t always succesful, but I do try.
Verbal abuse within the story can be hot.
Verbal abuse towards real people in real life is not.
Cheers, Hywel
Edited By Hywel on 1200179516
@hywel wrote:
…
Therefore, I’ve always tried to talk as myself on RE, and have the fantasies presented in the photosets framed by “real life” with things like the site forum and the behind the scenes footage to show how we go about creating those fantasies. I’m sorry if that isn’t always succesful, but I do try.
…Actually, I think this is a formidable and valuable strategy, and not only from a quality point of view.
Everything in the internet tends to feel artificial. I guess, currently this is the most important reason why local shops still exist: feeling, smelling and seeing stuff are so important to build up trust.
So I think, keeping in touch with reality is a very important issue when establishing a business that totally relies on virtual content. If you would never break out of this fantasy, people would start to doubt it, and mistrust it, and finally get bored with it.
Kate I *really* like your comments and views on this! That means a lot to me personally, for what that’s worth 🙂
The whole question is a little complex. There is a gulf between reality and fantasy, but I spend a lot of time with one paw in one world and another paw in the other world.
Bondage short stories, a passion of mine, are clearly fantasy, and a different set of rules applies to these. Yet even here I like to see women treated “properly”. That is a complex term, since being tied up unexpectedly, perhaps against their will (but by a partner) can be quite acceptable, depending on the context.
Since I spend a lot less time around pictures and movies – finding good content can be SO difficult – I am not so sure about my feelings here.
It is easier to watch a movie, to look at pictures, and think “that could be real” or even “that is real”, it is more “immediate” than a story.
For me there needs to be something else, something more, something to put this into context, to get the models views on things, and to see how the models and others feel about things when they step away from the fantasy, and look at what they are constructing.
Then again, I am probably not your average member 🙂
Damn it! (oh! – sorry about the language there!)
The trouble with delaying having an input into some of these threads is that all of my ideas/opinions have already been expressed by others!
In response to anonanonanon7’s initial point, I think a big draw to Restrained Elegance for a lot of us members is the fact that it is not the sort of site that is overly graphic in picture/video content or indeed language (about which your post refers). Having been a member some years I guess it an unlikely change, but were Hywel to decide he wanted the site to go in that general direction he might well pick up a few more members (there seem to be a wealth of sites out there offering that sort of content so there must be a market) but he would also certainly loose some of the regulars. The site has been around for a fair few (6? – I feel I should know that) years now and I have not detected a general drift away from elegant models tied-up to a more S/M D/S focus (the exception to this has of course been the heavier Ariel RE Nights shoots which I thought would take more getting used to than they have in part due to what Feline mentioned i.e. Ariel enjoys them and we see that in the set or in her description of the set). However, another theme running through the posts, is that often the subject matter requires some degree of ‘forceful instruction’ and where this happens in this context I feel it is entirely necessary and does not detract from my enjoyment of the site at all. In the context of the set in question, and keeping previous videos of Chanta’s RE photoshoots in mind, I can well imagine that phrase being used and it is fine with me in that context (I have clearly never met Sophia but am sure she is anything but a B*â€
Having finally caught up with the actual picture set that started this thread – just slightly late :blush there is another factor that no one really seems to have mentioned.
To me it is much more “acceptable” to see Chanta calling a woman a bitch than it would be to see a man using the same sort of language.
I am not sure that “acceptable” is the correct term, but it is the best word I can think of for now.
Since Chanta is also a lady this bypasses the entire issue of men putting women down, and the term “simply” becomes a way of expressing their relationship, and where the power lays.
I am not really a fan of seeing women put down, in any sense, but I do love seeing a woman in elegant and attractive bondage. It is a quandary I struggle with now and then *shrug* 🙂
Sites changing over time, this is an interesting point, but being so new to RE I don’t have any view of how RE might be changing. Time will tell.
CD, tickling, I am in 100% agreement with you here!
Just picture it, Ariel, or one of the other models, being tickled. Video of the quality, frame rate, frame size, that RE produces, of the event… video where someone actually knows what a tripod is, so the camera is actually steady…
I may need a lie down in a dark room in a moment :blush
I know Ariel is on record as hating the idea, but I don’t recall her actually saying “no”, so hope lives on :notworthy
running a “bit behind” does not really accurately describe my current situation, so there we go.
I have just watched the video called “videofichantadave1_wmv”
The relevant point here is the dialog, but more than what is said, it is how it is said and how people react to it.
You can certainly argue that the words and terms Chanta uses to describe Fi are far from polite. But look at the tone of voice, look at the smiles, look at the attitude, and look at how Fi is reacting to the whole situation.
It is more than the words used, it is the intend behind the words, and how they are received. The context, etc, within which the words exist. All of this needs to be considered when deciding if the words are appropriate or not, if they are demeaning or not.
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