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Plain speaking follows…
Not sure about other members, but personally I am getting tired of so many picture sets that go to great lengths to avoid showing the model’s pussy. I mean that is part of a woman, and there is absolutely no reason I can accept why a web site like this should be so chary of showing it. I am NOT saying that a woman’s genitals should be the main focus of the picture sets. But I am saying that they should not be avoided. And a good example of this changing in the wrong direction is shown by today’s picture sets. The newly shot set — of Laura Moore — goes to ridiculous lengths to avoid showing her genitalia, as have many recent sets, whereas the 2009 series — of Anita debauch — shows her pussy in a few shots at least.
Show women in all their glory and beauty, Hywel. Please.
As is commonly the case, the model in question requested that I not use any shots which she considered too revealing. In this case she was quite clear that she didn’t want open leg shots.
I therefore acceded to her wishes, trying not to shot anything too revealing, and discarding any I did shoot but which I believed she would not be happy with.
Cheers, Hywel.
Ah. I understand.
But then, might you be able to find models more willing to show all of themselves? Like the lovely Ariel, perhaps?
Doug340
I guess I’m on the opposite side of the issue. I generally prefer “artistic” nudity that’s coy about displaying pussy. (OTOH, I wouldn’t mind seeing an occasional set that has a vibrator tied there, with the model bound so as to be unable to reach it.)
For that matter, I’d like to see a reduced proportion of “100% nude” sets in favor of what might be called “clothed but not decent.” E.g. a short skirt – and nothing else, leaving the model topless and bare-legged. Or a scarf that covers one breast, but not the other breast or the loins. And that in any case does NOT involve stockings or shoes.
(For me, one of the most annoying and frustrating things is a set where the model is bound nude except for shoes and/or stockings. Not often seen on RE, but common on other sites.)
Well, in that case, Sablesword, your preferences are well taken care of on RE, since a decreasing number of models show any pussy at all. Again, my strong preference is not to show mainly pussy, but rather to not go out of the way to avoid showing it. To me, some semblance of reality is crucial (in fantasy) for credibility, and pussy is reality. Not showing pussy connotes artificiality of the same type that belabored erotic photography up through the 1980s…ugh!
I had a chance to shoot with the lovely Ms Moore last summer and while nothing was shot with an erotic tone, it was all quite “artistic” there were many full frontal nude shots. She certainly wasn’t shy and didn’t ask me to delete anything too revealing but then again my stuff wasn’t going on a pay website.
I’m curious if she’s done work on other websites, anyone know?
Yes, I recall that one of Laura Moore’s shoots on RE involved full nudity, and gave at least a hint of pussy. But nothing direct, presumably because of the type of rope work done. Could have been otherwise, I guess, given your comments.
For the life of me, I have trouble understanding why this remains a problem on RE. I mean the very lovely Ariel Anderssen is for me a close to perfect example of how, how much and when to display pussy in this type of photography — natural, sexy, unforced, and for want of a better word, healthy. And she is married to Hywel, and I believe now is something like the co-owner of the site. Yet very few other models have come even close to her tastefully and elegantly done display of pussy– over the years, and especially of late .
Tis a mystery.
Mmmmm, I’m sympathetic, I’m sorry that many of the sets don’t meet your requirements, Doug. The fact is, that we have a relatively small model pool here in the UK.
That’s to say, we have absolutely LOADS of girls, advertising themselves all over the place as models. But we don’t have a huge pool of proper professional working models who do the type of work we shoot. And there are LOADS of reasons why either a model might not want to work for us, or we might not want to work with them.
Here are some common ones;-
We mostly don’t want to work with them when;-
They don’t do nude work (it’s too restrictive not to be able to shoot SOME nude sets during a day)
They won’t/can’t wear gags (we don’t use them in every set, but it’s useful to be able to use them sometimes)
They have lots of tattoos/piercings (it doesn’t really fit the RE style)
They have feet in bad condition (we shoot lots of barefoot stuff)
We’ve heard from other producers that they’re really, truly, nasty, or really unreliable (sad but true)
They don’t look healthy
They live too far away from us to consider a one day shoot worth doing
We’ve shot them before but the members’ reaction has been extremely negative (this is very rare)
We don’t believe they’d be able to ‘tell a story’ with their facial expressions. Lots of models have one expression (Blue Steel!)They might not want to work for us because;-
They don’t work to nude
They’re scared about wearing gags, or don’t like the way gags look
They’re happy to shoot fully nude, but don’t do bondage (some porn stars fall into this category)
They’re happy to do bondage, but won’t do nude
They’re happy to do bondage AND nude, but not for a pay site
They just don’t do pay sites. Ever. (There’s still a stigma attached, as though no one ever, ever jerks off to free stuff online.)
They don’t like our work
They don’t like us (surely not?!)
We don’t pay them enough money
They don’t want to travel farSo actually, when all those things are taken into consideration, we don’t have a massive pool to choose from. And many of our models (for example Paige Robbins, April Appleby, Delta, Fi Stevens, Hannah Claydon, Rachelle Summers, Scarlot Rose) are relatively conservative about nudity. But we feel as though they still have plenty to offer to the site. When we book models who’re more relaxed about nudity, we shoot them in the way in which they naturally pose and don’t go to great lengths to avoid showing genitalia. But we don’t tend to really shoot open leg pictures; actually if we did, a number of the more conservative models would simply stop working with us because they wouldn’t want to appear on the same site.
And we’re really proud of the fact that our reputation means that models who wouldn’t consider doing bondage work elsewhere are happy to model for us. It’s given us a model pool of very beautiful women who are expressive and skilled.
It also feels worth mentioning that models, especially ones who are relatively young/new sometimes take a bit of time to figure out what level of work they’re happy doing. So seeing more explicit shots of a model elsewhere doesn’t necessarily mean that she’s happy working to this level, especially when bondage is added into the mix, and especially on a relatively high profile website.
It’s a bit of a minefield really! And we’re doing the best we can.
Doug340, whether the pussy (or nudity in general) is increasing or decreasing depends on the length of your baseline. My own sampling (going back almost to the start of the website – I first joined a month after it opened) suggests that there has been a slight increase in nudity overall, a large increase in “no clothes” nudity, and maybe a slight increase in pussy. But the effect is of a lower proportion of pussy in the no-clothes nudity sets, and that may be what you’re reacting to.
What I’m likely reacting to is the increase in “no-clothes” nudity; my druthers would be for most sets to have partially-clothed nudity, with no-clothes nudity and fully-clothed bondage being equal minorities. But it’s not all that big a deal to me, as long as things don’t go to extremes.
There might be an idea for a video here. A model is ordered to strip, refuses to take evyrithing off, and gets punished…
Ariel, thank you for your long, detailed, thoughtful and, unfortunately, convincing explanation of the situation you and your models find yourselves in. Your citing the intersection of nudity, kink, youthful uncertainty and limited public acceptance as governing factors is all too familiar, even in this day and age I’m afraid. Perhaps the problem is compounded by the fact that you personally and a (very) few other models on RE set a standard that is not easily matched.
What I mean by that is this. When I consider some of the RE sets that excel in naturalness and quality* and compare them to the more plentiful sets of tied up, overdressed, relatively expressionless (though attractive) models, I am struck by how the former is head-and-shoulders better than the latter.
Of course I realize RE cannot be expected to produce the highest quality with every effort. The world just doesn’t work that way, even as, in its own way, RE sets a standard of quality few others in the world of kink achieve.
Actually, you personally remind me frequently of Audrey Hepburn. Not in looks, although you are both beautiful women, but in range, acting ability, naturalness and possible cultural impact. You are too young to have experienced it, though perhaps you know that her appearance in Breakfast At Tiffany’s caused a major change in America in what could be accepted and discussed in the movies, and in the broader culture, concerning prostitutes in particular and sex in general. Lots of explanations why that was the case, but the way she came across as natural, convincing and honest – the girl next door quality – plus her beauty, had a lot to do with it.
Personally, I think quality sites like Restrained Elegance can and are making a difference in how kink is thought of, how it is accepted, and how people will value it over time in what might be (somewhat generously) referred to as polite society. It is a shame even if understandable that so many of your models are conflicted about participating fully in it. But if you personally in your various roles can get wide enough recognition there is hope that kink can be understood as just another wrinkle in the complexities of human sexual nature.
Again, thanks for taking the time to explain your situation.
*For example, the Lexicon series, the lawn race video, Throw Away The Key, the Long Term Bondage series, the recent and excellent Use Me Sir, among many others.
Here is a tie i’d like to see if the right model could be found.
A model on her back, frog tied, knees spread wide, with the soles of her feet together. Lashed together.
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This reply was modified 10 years ago by
Bob20.
Ariel, let me add to Doug340’s thanks for your long & thoughtful explaination.
But being the kind of guy I am, I have more questions :p
How many models drop out or get dropped due to “won’t work nude” vs the other factors?
Also, is there a big distinction made between “nude” and “topless” in the UK model pool, or do the two tend to be lumped together?
Hard to get meaningful numbers, Sablesword.
Running my “standard” search for models with references within a sane distance who advertise as being happy to do bondage and nude work generated approx. 450 portfolios on one of the larger UK model/photographer portfolio sites.
Running the same thing for just “bondage” generated about 650.
For bondage and topless, it was 480.
For just nude it was over 1000 (couldn’t get an exact number).
Not all models are on this site (which is one of the few with a specific bondage category).
Not all models who are happy to work with us advertise themselves as shooting bondage. Being happy to shoot with Restrained Elegance or Models Tied or Bondage Cafe is not the same as being willing to shoot it with just any old guy with camera.
Not all models who are happy shooting nude and bondage are happy to shoot nude whilst in bondage.
Really there are no hard and fast rules.
Each model is an independent contractor who only takes on shoots which appeal to her.
Each model we employ is a contractor who we’ve decided to risk paying for a shoot in the hope she will be on the same wavelength as us and produce some stunning photos.
It hard to guess from a model’s portfolio whether she will be on the same wavelength as us. After 13+ years, the best I have come up with are the following heuristics, none of which are hard-and-fast rules:
– Models who are happy to work to nude are often more comfortable with posing generally, and give us more scope for shooting different ideas. Models who do much more explicit work are often pretty laid back, but not always. (Plenty of exceptions, Paige Robbins being a prime example- stunning, awesome at posing, very flexible, great bondage brain, but very conservative about nudity. Wouldn’t have missed out on shooting her for the world).
– Models who contact me get a brownie point and at least make me look at their portfolio. If they’ve contacted me with something other than a form letter which implies they actually have looked at our work and like it, they get two brownie points.
– Models who have a lot of variety of styles in the portfolios are often more versatile.
– Models whose portfolio shots are all very heavily photoshopped, or all from one or two photographers, raise a red flag. (Less so if they say they are new and have contacted me, but still a bit warning sign).
– Models who have a variety of facial expressions in their portfolio get several brownie points.
– Models with bad photos in their portfolio get a red flag. If they have no eye for a good photo, I’m concerned. Exception: models who post no-makeup-no-photoshop shots deliberately get a brownie point.
– As Ariel said, models with extensive tattoos get a red flag. (As always there are exceptions: Natalia K!)
– Models with lots of positive references get a brownie point, but we’ve worked with models who have lots of references with whom we totally failed to click.
– Models with really eye-catching images that I’ve seen around and not twigged who the model was get several brownie points when I spot those memorable images in their portfolios.
– Previous bondage experience doesn’t count for much to us. If the model is happy to give it a go and is expressive, whole-hearted and really goes for it on set, the results can be very strong, whereas a jaded been-there-seen-it-got-the-t-shirt lifestyler can generate lacklustre images.
– In fact I’d generally say that lifestyler models raise a red flag. We are creating artistic images, not delivering satisfying bondage experiences, and sometimes those expectations collide. Professional models are used to putting up with a modest amount of discomfort in their daily work life (eg cold studio floors) and have experience of delivering the required performance even in challenging situations. Sometimes lifestyler models forget that we are paying them to do a job and a few elements that aren’t in line with their ideal personal fantasies are entirely reasonable given that we are paying them to help with realising our vision, not vice versa.
– Lots of negative words in their portfolio profile raises a red flag. The portfolio is a pro model’s shop window, and you should use it to make people enthusiastic about the possibility of shooting with you.
– Ultimately, the decision on who to book is made on an emotional level: would I like to see photos of that person tied up? Do I think they will be fun and interesting? Do I keep coming back to their portfolio for a second look? Are there shots in their portfolio I wish I had taken? When I think about a shoot plan, do I have lots of ideas to try, or am I scrabbling around for something that I’d rather shoot with one of our regular models?
It’s not a very scientific process, given that each shoot is a serious investment of money, time and energy. (A typical shoot day comes in at about 500 pounds in cold cash, plus a day of time in advance to plan and maybe four days afterwards to process, write stories, backup, edit videos, etc.. )
But I’m not much a business person when it comes to Restrained Elegance. I make the stuff I want to see, that I’m excited to shoot. Which is why it ultimately comes down to the emotional decision- do I want to see photos of that girl in bondage? Am I excited and filled with ideas to try with her?
Cheers, Hywel
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This reply was modified 10 years ago by
Hywel.
Thanks Hywel. Fuzzy, order-of-magnitude numbers are still better than no numbers at all. The thought behind my questions (besides morbid curiosity…) was to get a Fermi estimate for the question “would it be worthwhile to suggest that RE relax the ‘willing to work nude’ requirement in order to find more good models?” And it sounds like the answer is “no, not any more than RE does already.”
It’s interesting that bondage experience is a zero to negative factor in your heuristics. I wouldn’t have expected that. Although I would expect models who are bondage enthusiasts first and models second to be a gamble – maybe very good, maybe very bad.
And it occurs to me that the longer shoots you do for RE will have a different dynamic than the short shoots I’ve done at Fetishcon. That my personal experience is not only limited, but skewed.
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This reply was modified 10 years ago by
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