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Do you like your bondage straight faced and dramatic, or playful, or both?
Hywel.
I put down “like a mix, but each set should be one or the other” – but I dithered over that and “mix of both in the same set”
I like the Damsel in Distress ones because I want a bit of fantasy. Can get reality at home but the costumes and sets etc are why I come here!
The costumes are a big draw for me, too. But costumes and sets don’t exclude the possibility of happy, playful captivity.
In fact, I’d say that a captive damsel who is pleased with her situtation is at least as much a fantasy as one who is distressed by it.
Granted, but for me, if the young lady is enjoying it, that kind of removes all the drama, tension and implied threat from the storyline.
In fact, the story becomes a bit redundant e.g. Girl wants to be tied up, girl gets tied up, everyone is happy, the end.
I like a mixture of both, but kept seperate. I love a good bondage fantasy with horror, fear, and especially despair.
BUT, If the model has real whip marks, or is in a position that HAS to hurt….then its no longer fanatsy….its real…. a real turn off for me.It’s good to be able to go to a different photoset and see the same models switching roles, or playing around.
Oops I’ve just realised my post above might have come over wrong.
What I certainly don’t want is to see anyone in real discomfort. There’re a million websites pushing that and they all scare me frankly because I’m squeemish.
I don’t wish to see whip marks, candle wax or real pain but I do like storyline pretend suspense, despair and distress, rather like an episode of The Avengers only Ms King shouldn’t get boringly rescued. (I know I’m in the minority but I preferred Tara King to Mrs Peel).
I can’t remember a set here that was entirely playful — even in the self-bondage sets the models look glum and grimacing. Yet it appears from this poll that the majority would like to see at least a significant fraction of sets take this approach. Hopefully this will encourage Hywel to ask a model in the ropes to “say cheese” before long…
I don’t get it. With survey results like these, you add a new (promised to be recurring) feature today showing the “darker side of Restrained Elegance”… when most of your members would rather see the lighter side, and most would like you to produce a few sets that are completely light and happy (which you have never done)! I know that you are the artist, and your creative vision is important, but if these polls don’t mean anything to you, why do you bother asking for our opinions?
Hey give me a break here! I am working on some happy sets as well, the new feature is exploring the darker side of Restrained Elegance because that’s what ARIEL wanted to do.
The votes on this poll certainly support that a few people would definitely like to see more happy sets (the four who voted for the love bondage happy sets).
So… yes, I am planning to shoot some light sets, and yes I do pay some attention to the votes. They are one of the things which I factor into what to shoot… along with about a million other considerations like what clothes fit, what sets are available, what sort of bondage to use, what position, what storyline, gag/no-gag/ball-gag/cloth-gag, etc etc etc.
Bear in mind that the total number of people who voted AT ALL is only a few percent of the members on the site and so definitely have to take the results of any poll with a big pinch of salt- it is by no means clear that “most” of the members want me to do more light sets, or even that most of few percent who voted want me to.
If by “never shot a purely light set” you mean never shot a set where there is **no** hint of apprehension or playful struggling or looking daggers at the camera- maybe you are right, although I’d be hard pushed to call the Belle/Myla Xmas videos anything other than 100% light. If the girl is THAT pleased to be tied up, I don’t really see the point of the ropes to be honest. To me, a light set is one where she is clearly basically happy, basically turned on, basically playful- but acting up a bit while she’s tied up.
I’m sorry that I don’t seem to be delivering what you want, but I can’t please everyone all of the time. In the end you are right I am an artist and I am going to shoot what I want to shoot, or what the ladies I am working with want to shoot. If I wanted to shoot to a strict brief I’d be working for a fashion magazine, not running my own bondage site as a labour of love I guess!
Cheers, Hywel.
Thanks for your frank and open response. I did acknowledge your artistry and I understand that your artistic choices are entirely your prerogative. But you did ask for our input, and I would note that in addition to the 4 votes you acknowledged, a further 12 votes were for “I like a mix of both [playful and serious] but each set should be one or the other.” And since you have never done even one entirely “smiles and playful love bondage” (your words, not mine) set in several years of running this site, it seems to me that a vote for “a mix of both” with each set being “one or the other” is a clear and unambiguous vote for more (i.e., more than zero) entirely “smiles and playful love bondage” sets in future… wouldn’t you agree? Finally, no one is asking you to “shoot to a strict brief” and frankly I have no idea how you would get that impression, since the categories in the survey are extremely broad and general, and in any case, were devised by you. Anyway, I appreciate at least the gesture you have made to seek our input… many sites don’t invite comment as you have.
P.S. I posted the above before I saw the wonderful new set with Janey… great smiles! Hope to see more like it.
Personally, I am ambivalent concerning bondage sets where the model is all smiles and giggles. I have nothing against models having a fun time–in fact, I would hope they always do–but I just don’t think smiles and giggles when I think bondage. I guess it kind of breaks the mood. My suggestion is to maintain the overall mood in a single shoot. (That was the third choice above I believe.)
And Barrie: While I will admit that Tara King was unbelievably hot, all the really, umm, memorable episodes were Emma Peel episodes. “Escape in Time” with the foot stocks. “A Touch of Brimstone” where Mrs Peel was dressed up as the Queen of Sin. Plus, those outfits. ::sigh:: Those were the days.
I think the main dilemma for me here is where we are shooting a set which is serious in mood, but we have a few really cute out-take or behind-the-scenes shots showing the girls smiling and laughing. I kinda like those shots because they are very human and personal and show that yeh the girls are actually having fun some of the time even in very strict bondage. But it does puncture the mood of a dark or intense set.
Maybe I should post them at the end of the set and call them out-takes or something?
Hywel.
@hywel wrote:
I think the main dilemma for me here is where we are shooting a set which is serious in mood, but we have a few really cute out-take or behind-the-scenes shots showing the girls smiling and laughing. I kinda like those shots because they are very human and personal and show that yeh the girls are actually having fun some of the time even in very strict bondage. But it does puncture the mood of a dark or intense set.
Maybe I should post them at the end of the set and call them out-takes or something?
Hywel.
That sounds like a great solution.
Or you could even separate them. I can enjoy the serious shoot without a break in mood, then I can enjoy the funnier, lighter “behind the scenes/outtakes” shoot afterwards. Plus, as an added bonus, that gives you TWO separate posts where you only had one before. I’ve got to say, it seems to me you must be working your butt off to maintain the number of new posts that you do on RE.
Not that I’m complaining. 😀
Hywel,
I rather like the out-takes etc. in context, but I quite understand why for some people that breaks the mood, but then for me out-takes are part of the media experience. I’m mightly relieved to see that the consensus is for keeping them, they are a unique part of the RE experience.
I personally don’t like the top and tailing approach of the industrial strength BDSM sites, for those who don’t know, where the model does an interview to camera about how she is really happy and looking forward to being ….. and at the end another interview where she says how much see enjoyed being ….. The whole thing seems wholly contrived to self-justify some pretty lewd behaviour, not my cup of tea, but on the other hand we at least know the participants were (probably) up for it.I think the solution (puts anorak on) might be to provide a download of two archives, one the main thread and the other the outakes etc., but keep the file numbering sequence across the two archives. So somebody like me can copy them in to a single directory and hey presto I get a sequential or at least context sequenced set and other people can view them as two sets, best of both worlds?
Frank
The solution has to be minimal work to implement, if possible.
There usually aren’t enough of the out-takes to make it sensible to show them as a separate update. I often do do the behind-the-scenes stuff as a separate update (eg the suspension rigging videos with Chanta).
The easy way to do them would be to put them out of filename sequence in an easy way (starting the filename with s instead of r, for example) so that they naturally appear at the end of the gallery- in the same way that the Large picks automatically appear first (which was by design incidentally).
We’re probably only talking about half a dozen pics per set, tops, even where there ARE some out-takes.
Have to agree with you on the top-and-tailing, Frank. But it is there for purely legal reasons rather than artistic or stylistic ones. By having both the before and after scenes establishing that everything is consensual, they are pre-emptively strenthening their case against VISA/MC/Verotel/CCBill dropping them for forbidden content.
It is bizarre that merely using the word “rape” on your website can lose you your billing, even if the context is a long thoughtful essay on “Why Bondage Is Not Rape” on the most upbeat, innocent and chaste damsels in distress site. Words are easy to search, so the billing companies do that as they are lazy.
Damsels in distress, even in a fantasy context clearly identified as such are apparently “naughty” to the billing companies. Whereas shoving things up every orifice are fine so long as it is topped and tailed by that “it is all consensual” stuff, apparently.
This sort of stupidity is one reason why I have not pursued CCBill as a billing option. I’d have to remove most of the storylines from the site, because the text can be easily searched and is bound to throw up some “naughty” words. (Actually if forced to go that route I’d probably put the stories
up as graphics of nice twirly text on a pretty scroll so it is hard to OCR- censor that, you idiot billing company!)The neo-con morons are in charge in the USA at the moment and are propagating all sorts of nonsense of this type… USC2257 being the best known. A clear and dumb attempt to make the record keeping requirements so onerous that adult producers are terrified, carrying ludicrous 5 year jail terms for each offence (i.e. misfile 1000 pics in your database, even if everyone is over 18, technically might get you 5000 years in jail). It is just an attempt to take people out of business without having the guts to stand up and ban things- because if they tried to impose censorship directly then all sorts of people would jump up to defend the right of free speech. But make things impossibly bureaucratic and labyrithine, and claim that you are doing it to stop anyone shooting kiddie porn, and everyone lets them get away with it.
Britain may not be the most open society in the world but damn it is a bit less oppressive than the USA at the moment.
Cheers, Hywel.
Edited By Hywel on 1175896529
Hywel,
Sounds like a solution, one could then use a rename utility to get them back in sequence …… (takes anorak off).And there was I being circumspect in order not to offend anyone, especially those who are so thick as to confuse a genre of British Spy film with an oilseed crop.
I’ve had many a long conversation with a friend of mine about what exactly consensual and for that matter what exploitation means, in the context of adult services, and it doesn’t include saying anything you have to in pre/post event interview because you are so hard up that you must have the cash…..
However I’m content, especially having met both you and Ariel, and the sheer number of the aforementioned out-takes that your site meets the highest standards of consensuality. Equally I’m sure many others do too, I would imagine Jasmine’s does, however yours is the only one I belong to, this being one of the reasons. Even so I’m a little troubled by some sites, viz. I can understand spanking from a participants POV (in a relationship of some sort) but can’t get my head round it as a spectator, but each to his own as long as everybody involved is content.
Let’s face it the billing/credit card/merchant services companies are ******* and do what the **** they like. Barclaycard will now charge you 0.5% extra for a customer not present transaction without a CVV2 because of the increased risk, even though they will charge you back like lightning and turn you off it happens too much. Incidentally you didn’t mention chargebacks in the other thread, I know it is a major problem for some sites.
Not sure I’m completely with you on the Britain being less oppressive front, we seem to be bending over backwards to extradite people to the US (and EU) on the flimsiest pretext. It’s only a matter of time before some DA up for re-election in the states tries an extradition on a USC2257 violation, RE is available in the US, your server is in the US … luckily your not a likely target nor are they likely to get the approriate search warrant they would need first…. They will change the law so you have to keep the records in the US, which of course the Data Protection act stops you doing. In fact I seem to remember reading somewhere that they wanted to define a US driving licence as one of the required proofs, interesting spin on protectionism there, could make for a fun debate at the WTO.
Got a theme for a set here “RE admin department bound up in red tape” …..
Regards
Frank
You can tell it’s the holidays and I’m at home bored to death can’t you
I’ve just processed a set of Chanta and Ariel where I tried saving the files with different names if they were a bit outside the damsel-in-distress tone of the set. Trouble was I found myself agonising for 30 seconds per pic that was kinda on the edge. Hmmmm Chanta is smiling in this pic but it is sorta mean is that one OK or should it be put at the end? It is slowing down my flow so much that I don’t know it is a viable solution. (As I’m sure you can understand with of order of 2000 shots to process every month, anything which adds even 30 seconds to a significant fraction of pics is BAD news).
I think I’m going to leave things as they are. You can always delete the out-takes yourself, and it is too much a personal judgement what to leave in and take out.
Hywel.
@hywel wrote:
I think I’m going to leave things as they are. You can always delete the out-takes yourself, and it is too much a personal judgement what to leave in and take out.
You know, I just had a “well duh” moment. I was actually thinking more about maintaining the mood in video shoots, where a story is being told and a laugh whatever would break the story mood. When it comes to pictures, I don’t experience a “mood” so much, and if there’s some issue, well, I can always move the “outtakes” into a separate folder myself.
Not sure why I didn’t tumble to all that earlier, but it still made for a nice forum dialog.
…try downloading the whole photoset of one of the ones with a stronger storyline, and flick through them one at a time with a pic browser. You should find they work like a picture book 🙂 🙂 🙂 So yeh you can puncture the mood in stills too.
In video I would edit it out for sure.
Cheers, Hywel.
Hywel,
Can quite see how doing it by hand at the volumes you work with would be a nightmare. I have a similar problem with my library of images, whilst I’d like to backup everything everytime I have to be realistic… so I’m having to divide them up, can’t bring myself to delete as ruthlessly as I should.I’m trying Adobe Bridge (yep I know you don’t) and rating the thumbnails then doing a batch rename ….. Sadly Bridge doesn’t appear to do keyboard shortcuts (like Photoshop) ‘cos click and function Key would be the solution.
I’ll have to give a Wndows level function key program a try.
Cheers
FrankWhen looking at photoshoots, I feel more comfortable when the model begins and ends in a playfull mood. In between I like distress, panic, terror, despair!
What I don’t like is when the model is in real obvious pain and I understand that this poses a delima because at least one of your models probably enjoys it. Discomfort is OK! Anything that would have a person renounce their religion or give names to the Gestopo is not.
I see RE as a site for those of us who like a pretty girl in trouble or restrained to keep her out of trouble!
In my own photographic work I go for pure gothic terror. But, I create single images with a lot of serious photoshopping. A day or two for each shot.
@barrie wrote:
I know I’m in the minority but I preferred Tara King to Mrs Peel
Mate, you need locking up!
Both playful and dark scenes can be fun, but what I really want are erotic scenes. I want the model to say with her face and body language: “this is really turning me on. Stop playing with your cameras and lights, let me go and I’ll really make it worth your while!”
i much prefer the damsel in distress scenes. When a girl is a slave girl about to be disciplined by her master, I like her to look and act like a slave girl. She should respect her master and be afraid of him.
The playful scenes with the cheeky slave girl are OK for a bit of variety now and again, but I much prefer the Ariel we saw in the putting to bed video. She was afraid of her master and anxious to please him (at least as long as he was there!),and I found it very erotic.
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