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Hi All,
I’ve been thinking a bit about how to rationalize the “community” and “public” parts of RE to make it easier to find stuff and easier for us to manage.
One thing we’ve noticed is that this forum is not as lively as it once was. I have a few thoughts about that which I’d like to run by you and ask what you think, because the “forum faithful” are the core of the Restrained Elegance community. You’ve given us solid support, great discussions and super ideas and inspiration over the years and I want to find the best way to encourage more people to join in.
The forum obviously could stay as it is, but there’s a few strikes against that in my opinion (see below). In the longer term, what do you think we should provide? What forum features do you use, what would you miss, how do you use the forum, what does other sites provide that we should emulate?
One issue is there’s lots of spam. You hopefully don’t see this, because I’ve set things up so people’s first two posts have to be approved by moderators. But we get three or four screenfulls of spam postings most days, which takes time to sift through because the last thing I want is for a genuine new contributors to get put off by having their post disapproved, or waiting a week to be approved if we’re away on shoots.
There are some captchas to try to prevent robots logging in, but the software version we’re on doesn’t work well and I think could be quite offputting to potential new posers. There are better captchas in newer versions, but that’ll need a “revamp” of the forum interface because the current skin isn’t compatible with the latest underlying board software versions. And I gather some spammers are even employing “human spam bots”, which obviously no captcha will stop.
The current version also has a long-standing issue with Safari on Mac OS not correctly logging you in, which is fine for reading but a pain in the arse for posting. (I have to do it from Firefox).
I can obviously update the forum and make a new skin, or change to a different underlying forum software. I want to see whether the forum could do with a more major re-think while I’m at it, and see if it is still the best solution to fit the needs we have as a community.
If we are honest, private website forums as hotbeds of discussion about kink, photography, bondage and life are in their twilight. Free forums (Fetlife) and more kinky people blogging and tweeting mean the websites are less a focus for general discussions. It has been a long time since we had multiple threads going on about the general nature of our kinks and how we got there.
So… although I’d love to have those discussions back, should we focus more on stuff specific to Restrained Elegance (samples, shoot ideas, shoot plans, suggestions, comments on sets) and maybe some techie photography and videography stuff for those of us who really want to compare notes on how to do bondage photography? (Sorry Ariel!)
What do you think of an RE blog encompassing the Monthly preview posts, samples from shoots, shoot plans, shoot ideas, shoot suggestions, and the “News and Announcements” bit of the members’ home page? I think it might be good to have all that stuff in one place, and allow comments so people can contribute and let us know what you want to see.
I’d probably incorporate the Elegance Studios blog into that as well, since we’ve ended up doing a lot of the discussions about the longer movies under the RE umbrella anyway. I’m thinking that this could be publicly visible, with us policing it very strictly to make sure we don’t get trolls, spammers and total drongos posting insults. A lot of times you guys and girls thoughtfully provide great ideas when we ask, and the blog comments would hopefully be almost as good for that as the forum, and maybe a bit easier to encourage newbies to contribute to?
I’d also love to encourage more people to post their ideas and suggestions “cold” as opposed to when we invite them, but I’m not sure whether the forum is really doing that so well these days either. Such a small percentage of people sign up for the forum (whether because the forum is technically offputting/confusing/broken, or they don’t want to say stuff publicly, or whatever) that I wonder if a nice big fat friendly “Please let us know what you think!” suggestions page might not be a better facility?
So maybe the forum’s roles could be better served by a blog/comments and a suggestions page, maybe getting rid of the forum in its current form entirely? Or possibly we should keep it and try to expand it by making it a proper public part of the site (but again riding shotgun very hard on trolls, spammers and idiots to make sure it stays a civil and constructive place to air thoughts).
Let me know what you think- it is really important to us not to piss off what Merlin calls the “small but vocal community of forum faithful” by making changes that might make you feel excluded, but I also think that blog+comments+suggestions page might encourage more people to contribute their thoughts, which has got to be a good aim!
Cheers, Hywel.
P.S.
If you’re thinking that we’ve already got something of a profusion of blogs and twitter feeds and hardly need another one, I’ll agree with you. If we go the blog+comments route, I’d want to streamline and aggregate so that the news pages, my blog, Ariel’s blog, the twitter feeds etc are all sensibly organised and accessible from one central switchyard page, so there would only be one place you ever needed to check to see what’s new and what the latest things going on are.
Hywel.
Many of the problems with the forum seem to be a matter of “impressions” (even when those impressions aren’t true).
There’s an impression that you and the other members of the RE crew don’t check the forum on a frequent or regular basis.
The Forum Guidelines say that it’s a place “to talk about all things pertaining to the site, and about bondage, BDSM fantasies, bondage photography and bondage videos in general” – but there’s an impression that discussions aren’t really welcome if they aren’t closely related to the sets and other stuff on the RE site.
There’s an impression that “cold” suggestions aren’t really all that welcome; that there is something faintly rude about making them. (One of the problems here is an aspect of “you can’t please everyone.” Any suggestion made will have a built-in opposition who doesn’t like it, and who would rather that RE actually do the exact opposite.)
I like having a RE forum here, and would prefer to keep it going as a forum rather than see it switch to a blog or meta-blog. My suggestions for preserving and improving the forum would be:
o When you blog, create a thread here pointing to that blog post. One thing in particular that I noticed was that you posted your piece about risk assessment on your blog and on fetlife but not here.
o Divide the “chat” sub-forum into three or four sub-forums. E.g.
===
Suggestion Box
– a place to make and discuss various suggestions, both invited and “cold”Showing Off
– a place for members to post their own photos, drawings, stories and other bondage stuff.Comments on Sets
General Chat
===Or some other division, with the point being to put out a bigger welcome mat. In any case, I’d suggest putting a subheading describing appropriate comments, rather than tucking that away in a Forum Guidelines post. E.g. if you keep just a single “Chat” subforum, then under the “Chat” title, give a subheading: “Posts about all things pertaining to the site, and about bondage, BDSM fantasies, bondage photography and bondage videos in general”
Hi Lurker,
Thanks for the feedback! To follow up on a couple of things you mention…
I check the forum most days except when we’re shooting (which can sometimes lead to long delays, as if we’ve largely out of ‘net contact, it may well be that ALL the RE crew are away on the same shoot).
I’m sorry if we come across as not welcoming suggestions- we certainly do, and very much appreciate them. There definitely does tend to be a “can’t please everyone” problem, which can lead to one person asking for something and someone else asking for the opposite. That was another reason I thought a friendly “suggestion” page might be more encouraging, so I could thank people privately and not have contrary opinions publicly posted. I’m sure no-one means to say other people’s suggestions are no good, just that tastes differ, but I see it may not be the warmest impression to someone coming forward with ideas.
Indeed, I never really know what to say in those circumstances, so I often don’t say anything, which probably makes the response seem even coder. I should be more assiduous in thanking people for posting and assuring them that we’ll see what we can do about incorporating their ideas.
The idea of posting on the forum when we blog is why I thought it might be better to have a central aggregated blog to subsume the blog/news/announcements. Would it be better to have a single page where you can always see the most recent RE-related posts, whichever blog they were originally on, rather than having to cross-post to announce it on each of the separate pages when a subject of potential interest comes up? It would save having to tweet about a blog about a forum post about a news item, if you see what I mean 🙂
I agree that if we keep the forum we should expand the number of sub-forums. Not so much that they each only get one post a year- I think your idea of a series of tightly targeted sub forums to invite people to post on is excellent, will certainly do that if we go ahead with a revamped forum!
Cheers, Hywel.
Some comments from a relative newcomer to RE and a total novice at discussion boards/forums (or is it fora?).
First, my impression is RE has lots of ways for users to make their views known including voting on each set on the site. I think Hywel and Ariel are marvellous if they make any sense of it at all. So, rationalise by all means.
I support the idea of something for people interested in “techie” aspects. I am not a serious photographer myself but I have been fascinated by some of the technical information that there was with some of the earlier sets and suspect I am becoming somewhat irritating in my new interest in lighting, angles and so on every time I pick up a camera.
I also support the idea of having something equivalent to a “suggestion box” without responses from other members. On the forum, many topics (including those I have contributed to) inevitably end with the conclusion that different people like different things. How lucky we are that RE offers a wide variety of content.
However, I think it might discourage contributions if they were in the public domain. For example, I have a presence on “Twitter”. I do not “follow” any RE feed because anyone can see who I “follow”. I have Hywel and Ariel’s pages bookmarked as favourites on my computer, which I know is rather cowardly and also unhelpful in that they can’t be sure from their “followers” how many people are really watching them. Sorry, but that’s me and I may not be alone.
Alternatively, if comments are in the public domain, Hywel may find people like me pestering him with “e-mail” (even) more than now!
Finally, I recognise Hywel and Ariel are running a business and all businesses have to move with the times. They have to do what they decide is best and make the best use of limited time. I joined for the beauty and (very often) sheer fun of the content of the site. I know where I would want those running the site to concentrate their time and skills.
Hywel,
I think one way to encourage suggestions and comments is to provide some basics of whats available.
Post that you have a this model coming in on this date, using that set, with these props available, and ask for suggestions that will fit.
Hi Bob20,
Good idea! I don’t want to specify dates for shoots (I’m always cautious giving away any details about models in semi-public forums, I know a few girls have had troubles with stalkers in the past) but I could certainly outline who we are hoping to shoot in the next few months and the location we’re planning to shoot… will post some threads about it next week.
To get the ball rolling, we’re hoping to shoot with Frankie, at the house, shortly. So available rooms are a bedroom, stairs and landing, living room, dining room, kitchen, white studio and black studio. “Unusual” kit that’s around or assembled at the moment includes the square cage, the steel bondage pole, and the ancient looking wooden stocks. Plus all the rope, metal work, gags, etc..
So any ideas or suggestions appreciated- I’ll flesh this out a bit next week with pictures of the various rooms etc.
Cheers, Hywel.
Here’s a quick suggestion based on your outline.
A dream sequence.
The model is tossing and turning in bed.
A mysterious figure comes for her in her dream and leads her down the stairs where her living room has been turned into a dungeon.
Wow, what an offer! The run of the RE mansion to suggest shoots. I’ll have a go. Apologies to you and Frankie that I don’t know her or whether any of this is really her thing.
Classic bedroom bondage is always good. Sure, the symbolism of “girl tied to bed” is obvious but we still like it (and that’s whether in your fantasy you’re the one on the bed feeling vulnerable or the one standing over the bed). Satin, denim, lingerie: you’ve done them all before – but you do them so well. 😀
For less common locations, the stairs and landing appeal to me. I know you’ve done lots of sets on staircases but (if I remember right) almost all are at locations with unusual (e.g. spiral or specially wide) staircases. All those wooden posts and rails on staircases fire the imagination for things like pole ties or “arms up” bondage for people who don’t have proper poles, hoists etc. The rail and banisters on the landing are just a large selection of anchorage points. Girl could be lying along the floor; kneeling with arms along the rail; bending over the rail etc.
You’ve also done lots of sets in kitchens so I expect I’ve just forgotten this one but I was thinking about preparing the Master’s tray while in handcuffs. The Master is, of course, very demanding in having his tray laid out precisely and delicately. Rehearse with paper cups before risking the crockery. 🙂
Hope this helps.
Andrew
Hi All,
Well, it looks like the forum has just got reinvograted, so when I have chance I will move to more spam-proof software and reorganise into select sub-forums as lurker suggests.
Thanks for suggestions for the shoot with Frankie. What actually happened on the day is typical, and explains why it is going to be a bit of wrench for me to start talking more openly about forthcoming shoots.
Frankie arrived early (YAY!) and was ready to go (double YAY!) after a cuppa and a quick pre-production meeting chat. We had four stills ideas planned, and three videos, one of which was Bob20’s idea.
We got the stills sets wrapped by lunchtime, so swapped over to video for the afternoon. I had planned out the first video in some detail (camera plots, storyboard sketch, etc.) so obviously that was the one we tackled first. I had originally planned to shoot the first two with the old Panasonic video camera and pick up the new RED Scarlet for the final video, which I’d planned as a simple “metal bondage music video” as I knew I’d likely be spending longer than usual fannying about with the camera as it was its first outing. Metal bondage is great because you can let the model out for a break while you faff. I thought we could probably get through the three videos if I shot the first two with a camera I knew.
But of course the excitement and the lure of luscious digitial cinema got to me, and we were doing OK for time, so I shot the first video with the RED. It took sufficiently long that we didn’t have enough time left at the end of the day to shoot another multi-location video (every time you move location, you incur a minimum of 15 minutes to move all the kit and light the new space).
So we ended up shooting just my first idea and the metal music video, because we didn’t have time left for Bob20’s suggestion.
Which makes me feel bad, because I had gone into the shoot with every intention of shooting it, but it just didn’t work out that way.
I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE promising things I don’t deliver. So from the earliest days of the site I’ve had a strict policy of not announcing anything unless it was already in the bag. I think that makes me come over as un-enthusiastic, non-committal and cold. 🙁 🙁 🙁
I hope it has stopped me coming over as a liar or a con-man who promises stuff he doesn’t deliver.
Anyway, at the end of all that verbiage, there’s a simple question to you guys.
Would you prefer me to change my policy, and be more open about what we have in the works? The considerable upside is that you can all have a much greater input, have things to look forward to and can write suggestions for concrete ideas with specific models and locations in mind.
The downside is that I will not be able to deliver on everything we discuss- sometimes entire shoots or trips get changed, rearranged or dropped entirely. Models quit, or move to L.A. more often than you might think, and everyone gets ‘flu from time to time.
Sometimes we get to a location and discover the fabulous castle we had planned has rooms like shoeboxes and we’d do much better shooting in the fields behind it and pretending it was Africa (that happened at a week-long shoot a couple of years ago!)
Or, like on Thursday’s shoot with Frankie, we plan for more than we shoot. Normally I just put the plan back into the pot for the next shoot- but the person suggesting it might be disappointed if they’ve suggested it for their fave model and we end up shooting it with someone else?
We can be more open about our plans, but I don’t want to disappoint people.
So… would you be happy with a “collegiate agreement” that all plans and discussions are on the understanding that no plan survives the first ten minutes of the shoot? That we’ll do our best to make a sexy and fun shoot incorporating as many suggestions as we can, whatever happens on the day, but that we can’t promise to shoot things as though they were custom shoots?
Cheers, Hywel.
My instincts and background both say, Hywel, that you should stick with, or very close to, the current policy. Never say you are going to do something unless you are certain it will happen (easiest if it already has).
However, there are lots of ways to talk round an idea (your own or someone else’s ) without making a commitment. I guess you can do the same when talking about the strengths or preferences of individual models (provided they are OK with that). And I definitely understand all the difficulties in saying what you will do during location shoots. I think of your trip to Norway (and I think I spy two pics of those stunning mountains in the April previews). I guess you only really knew how to use those views once you were looking at them – and the overwhelming skies in some sets must have been a challenge.
So, I may not have quite understood what you mean by your “collegiate agreement”. I don’t have any problem with it if it’s easier for you but I’d be just as happy to keep things on a more hypothetical basis until we see the result.
I also hope that an idea that is put up for a particular shoot but not used can still enter the general “melting pot” and perhaps trigger a better idea that is used in the future. I certainly offered mine in that spirit. Little did I know, when I suggested using the stairs with Frankie, that we were about to get today’s lovely set with Helen Stephens. Thank you for it.
Andrew
I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE promising things I don’t deliver.
I hear you. I really really don’t like doing that either.
I don’t think that makes you come across as cold and unenthusiastic, but it does have the drawback that people can’t make suggestions wrt a particular shoot until its way too late.
It would be nice if you could give a list of ideas under the category of “we’d like to do this but we don’t know if we’ll be able to” and not have anyone take it as a commitment.
Looks like this forum is coming alive already! Thanks to those who looked at my images!
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